Parents’ stories
Read through to see some of the responses that have been coming in to us. Share in the stories of other parents who struggle to come to terms with why the Department of Education remains mute on their concerns.
On the first day of the classs, my daughter, being the only one whose parents had ticked “NO” was asked to sit on her own at her desk, IN THE SAME ROOM, while the SRI class was conducted, so she got Christian education by watching it any way. When we talked about it, she talked only about Jesus, not about any other faiths, and she said to me: “Dad, I believe in jesus, I really do. Can I do SRI?” she was in tears at being left out of the group. She just had to sit and watch, and was told by the volunteer: “your mum ticked no, so you can’t participate in this class”. She watched all her friends get colouring books, name tags, pencils etc. with Jesus written on them and the classic pictures of Jesus. So we have decided to opt in. I don’t believe in Jesus, God, etc. but do see the good that Faith based values systems instil in communities generally, but I want my daughter to ask these questions of us as she grows and develops in her thinking. She does it this year, but we seriously talk to her about making up her own mind, then next year we just don’t put her in to the class. She is a great kid, and smart, so I don’t think it will traumatize her, or anything, but it is a bit crazy to offer to opt out of a class you are forced to watch, and at the same time are ostracised from openly. Really really poor strategy by the instructor on that occasion. Ironically, 5 other parents say they don’t want to do it but it is compulsory, but their kids have come home and said: “If (my daughter) doesn’t have to do sri, then why do I have to do it?”
I am a grandmother with grandchildren at public school, and Iam appalled at the supposed teaching of religion in school time. I have had one grandson humiliated by being made to sit in a broom cupboard during this “teaching time” and it upset him so much my daughter -in-law gave in and allowed him to attend the class, even though it was against their beliefs. They didn’t like what he was coming home and saying, about what he was being ” taught”, but his wellbeing was of concern. If parents want their children to have religious instruction, let it be held after school or take them to Sunday school, or is that too inconvenient for them? As far as teaching the children “values”, one gets those from seeing how their parents interact with others and what is important to them in life, not from some volunteer who has their own set of values. I feel they must have a bias towards their religion, otherwise why dont they discuss all religions, of which there are many.
I am a parent of children at ### Primary School. I have long been disturbed by the CRE programme in our school for a number of reasons:- it is taught in the classroom, during class time and so the context makes it very difficult for a young, uncritical mind to distinguish factual based lessons from the views of a CRE ‘teacher’ (CRE starts in prep, seamlessly conducted after numeracy or literacy for example); - when questioned about what is involved, parents are told it is merely about good values of community, respect and tolerance etc but the workbook the children are given is very specifically promoting Christianity, including statements about Jesus being their saviour and the son of God and various other statements that are certainly not at a higher level of principle that could be applicable to people of any faith (ie. humanist values) - the CRE classes involve a prayer, which cannot be said to be encouraging values: rather it must be said to be indoctrinating the children; - the religious education covers only Christianity, it is not at all like a class about the environment or some other topic expanding the children’s knowledge base. Similarly, the discussion is not presented as one view, it is stated as fact. My children have come home telling me how Mrs so-and-so says that heaven is real and God will save them and there is no suggestion at any time that the CRE teacher is educating them about the Christian cultural background of our community in an impartial way; - the fact that it is an opt-out process rather than opt-in is offensive in the secular public school: every child who opts out feels and is excluded, they are offered no alternative activity and the numbers of children opting out is arguably very small because it takes an active step to remove oneself. It would be interesting to compare the participation rates of an opt-in process, particularly if it were held during break times rather than class time. - If the public school system is welcoming and accepting of other faiths, why is it that the child of another faith will find themselves quite separate and excluded: no religious education is offered for anyone but the Christians (there is a Jewish programme in our school but no other programme) and the children of other faiths, or whose parents are atheists or indeed humanists, can therefore not besaid to be included or accepted to the same degree as a child of a Christian background. This is not a mere sensitivity of the child, it is a fact. - There are Christian religious services conducted at the local church where the entire school marches up with their teacher and their class to attend during class time. How can that be acceptable if we are truly a secular public education system? Any children, again, who are not Christian, have to wait for their class to return with no substitute activity offered to them. I stand with my children at the front of the school so that they can rejoin their class when they march back; - My grade 3 son told his teacher that he didn’t attend CRE lessons and the CRE teacher told him it is a shame because at the end of the year, the CRE teachers give all the students who attend a lovely present. That certainly speaks for itself in terms of the inappropriateness of the whole exercise, and the fact that it is not merely reinforcing values of repsect, tolerance etc. It is now a blackmailing exercise, combined with a prayer to a Christian God. Thank you very much for your efforts concerning this issue. There are many of us who appreciate it and have had no success pursuing it individually, other than to offer our children suggestions about how they can entertain themself for a free half hour of class time
### opted in to RE because he would have been the only prep child not doing RE. On enquiry, I was assured by the school that the RE program complimented the school values and was not proselytising, but taught the broader christian values and did not go into the dogma of the various churches so we opted in and paid the $8. He immediately began to complain about it and at the age of 5, to his credit, stood up and told the volunteer he did not believe what she was telling them. He had been lead to believe, or had interpreted from her preaching, that it was necessary to marry, that when you die you will go heaven if you are good, hell if you are bad, there was some discussion of the rapture also. None of this is compatible with the school values of respect, responsibility, resilience, and relationships. Once opted out he went off to a different class for the 20 minutes of the class. Over the past 4 years there has been a growing group of children who have opted out however he was somewhat conspicuous for the first year. In an effort to address what I saw was the inappropriate nature of the program, I wrote to the principal to have the matter raised at school Council, which I had recently been elected to. I was advised this was not a Council matter and that as requested, I would be given the contact details for the Christian Ministry Co-ordinator for the area. This was not forthcoming, instead at the apparent request of the co-ordinator, my letter and contact details were passed to her. She made only one phone call to me where she left a message on my answering machine indication she would contact me again (she never did again) and did not leave a return phone or post contact. I had specifically requested that the RE teachers names and contact details should be provided to parents so that if they had concerns about what was being taught they had a person to contact. No that was not going to happen. I requested that the curriculum for the RE program should be provided to parents so they could determine its appropriateness or otherwise. Instead, a notice in the school newsletter indicated that if you wanted one, to contact the school and they would pass on your details. I have never received a copy of the curriculum. Again, they would not allow a name or phone number to be provided. I have found the ACCESS Ministries website guidelines are vague to say the least and alarming as for the 4-6 year olds is says they teach “god made everything. ( so glad, maybe he/she could whip up dinner for me tonight). I also object that ACCESS dictates the time of day their volunteers are available, the school does not get to determine the best time to allow this activity with minimal disruption to the core activities of public school. I fully and enthusiastically support your campaign for the secular rights of our society.
For the past month, I have been frustrated and angered by my daughter’s school introducing an ‘opt-out’ religious education class. Needless to say, many parents allowed their children to attend as they assumed everyone else would. A few of us took a stand and a few more pulled out when they learned of the support. We also had a minor win in that our children will not be sitting in a corner, colouring in or similar.
Last Monday, one of my daughter’s friends followed his mate in to the religious ed class. He emerged with a tale of how the “recent Queensland floods were the result of people not thinking about god enough”. A complaint has been lodged with the school principal and we are yet to hear the outcome. Frightening stuff really!
My son was made to feel punished for not partaking in the class and sat in the hallway during the sessions and told to keep quiet.. so i sent a letter to the teacher asking if my son can be given a work sheet or pencil and paper and if not that i would be happy to provide him an alternative, only to receive a phone call basically bullying me to allow him to partake in the class. On this note .. due to being bullied and feeling that there is no alternative in this situation, i find the only solution is to keep my son out of school on that particular day and give him tasks at home and teach him about life, Australian history and broadening his knowledge on ALL types of religious practices .. not just Christianity.
When my son started prep last year his teacher was stunned when I asked if he would be learning multi faith religion or secular. When she replied only Christianity, I gave her a resounding NO it is not alright, response to her assumption that he would be joining in. She (his teacher) seemed completely stunned that someone would say no, when we question our son he says he has to read books or do drawing whilst his classmates learn about religion. The other children are encouraged to talk about what they learn with the ‘other’ kids outside of the RE class so of course he has questions and is told he won’t go to heaven etc. As far as I am concerned it is ALL or NONE….remove the ONE class that provides the foundation stone of bullying behavior and segregation from my son’s educational experience!
We do not disclose our spiritual/religious beliefs to others and should not have other beliefs foistered upon us!
In my case I didn’t opt out of religion classes for my child because I thought he was going to learn about religion, and about human values rather than be preached to.
I was a bit shocked to learn that kids were being preached evangelical christianity as the “truth” rather than being taught about it in the context of multiple other religious beliefs.
My child has come home stating …
“The most important rule is to love God, then love other people”
“God made the world in 7 days”
In his work books he has been instructed to write “Father God you are great You’re the King not just my mate”.
There are some great things in his work book, exploring the concepts of bravery, dealing with sadness, appreciation, forgiving and kindness, but all are presented with the underlying nuance that the motivation for these values is to please God. In a secular school I was expecting a presentation of these values without reverting to a deity as motivator.
A bit like I want my kid to behave well because that’s inherently how we all get along, rather than behave well because someone tells him to, to gain a reward or to avoid punishment.
If our children are motivated by a God they are at risk of being manipulated by people who appoint themselves that God’s mouth piece …
I am shocked reading everyones responses to CRE. I joined the CRE team and have been in Primary schools now for 16years. NEVER do I tell the children that they have to believe in God or His Son. I share our Biblical History and always talk about our life today and what we can learn from the past. I attend Grade 1/2′s. The children are absolutely fantastic, and I have had many questions which I always encourage the children to talk with their parents at home. In CRE they hear why we have Easter and Christmas. Children who don’t attend are not in the classroom to hear and are given another activity to do. I am shocked that some parents/Grandparents are saying that their children are being neglected by the school and even being put in a broom cupboard!!! CRE promotes what Christianity is about… being kind and caring and tolerant of all people. Tolerance is so important, don’t you think!
My attitude to Religious Education as provided by Access Ministries was formed when my daughter, who was then five years old and having difficulty understanding why her mother had recently left her life, brought home an Access Ministries workbook which included as one of the activities a colour-in picture of a mobile phone on which she could send a text message to Jesus stating that she knew that she was full of sin and did not deserve salvation. I was absolutely aghast.
Soon after that my little one asked me if her mother was not part of our lives because we were too sinful to be happy. What was I supposed to say to that? “No, darling, it has more to do with her mental illness and alcoholism”? To have some ignorant pig putting that kind of idea into the head of a small child without knowing anything about that child’s situation is disgusting. Of course I do not know how much of that came from the SRI ‘teacher’ and how much came from the children discussing it afterward, but the concepts behind that idea are in the ‘Launch’ workbook Access Ministries give to Prep children.
I did not realise that Religious Education was an automatic part of the Victorian state school curriculum. When I was growing up in South Australia children did Religious Education only if their parents opted for them to do it and the rest of us went on with normal lessons. Today in Victoria children are automatically sent to colour in their own text message to Jesus irrespective of their family’s faith and with no consultation of their parents or consideration of the emotional situation they are in.
I have also noticed mention of an $8.00 fee for the Access Ministries materials. I have never been asked to pay this so I am now worried that it must have been charged of all parents without asking. I will look into this.
And for those of you who are wondering, my daughter’s ‘sinful’ nature had absolutely nothing to do with her mother and I no longer being together and I feel seething rage at any pious fool who would support such an abhorrent idea in the mind of such a sweet, considerate and thoughtful child. If you believe the message presented in that workbook is true or appropriate for such a child, please do you and I both a favour and do not tell me that you think so.
Owen, all I can say is sorry. I don’t take the Preps, so I haven’t seen the lessons. We are on brand new curriculum, which seems to me needs to be seriously looked at. The old curriculum was fantastic. Your daughter is special and in the grade 1/2 lessons this year, I have shared with the children how special we all are and how we need to treat each other. The children love talking about being kind and caring and telling me how they play with each other and take students to sick bay when they need help. Jesus was tolerant of all people and He treated everyone as equals. He was compassionate and helped many people. Whether you believe or not He is God’s Son, Jesus is a good example and is the leader of Christianity. Christianity is a great lesson to share if shared properly. I have forwarded your experience to Access for them to look into. Wish I could share CRE with your daughter, she would love it, and so would you. XX
Debra, my daughter is kind and compassionate already. As parents, we have installed values that are not based on a magical sky god but rather out of actual respect and tolerance for fellow human beings. She doesn’t need your Jesus fairy tales, she has Santa which in due time she will grow out of.
I find your statement “wish I could share CRE with your daughter, she would love it and so would you XX” really rather creepy. It shows an intolerance and dismissal of other people’s values, and a lack of respect for parenting choices. It shows an inability to accept other’s choices when they differ from yours.
Debra, above all your post re-affirms that CRE volunteers are unqualified, more likely to indoctrinate rather than educate, and confirms my strong belief that children should not to be exposed to such biased influences.
JD we all have a right to our own views. If people saw the wonderful work in CRE, people wouldn’t be condemning it. It is wonderful you have raised your daughter to be kind and compassionate. If everyone was kind and compassionate we wouldn’t be here on this site discussing it. Attack me for whatever you want. I have been in the State school system for 16years. The children in CRE are there because their parents chose it. It is still a teaching time, so children who don’t attend are still doing schoolwork. CRE has been part of the school curriculum since the Christian churches started the education system in Victoria. You might think its time for a change, but I’m hoping the majority of parents are happy to keep the structure as it is.
Debra – you are wrong. Parents do not CHOOSE to have their children in CRE. It is a compulsory part of the school program and the op-out ‘choice’ is a joke. There is no choice. Opt-out children are treated as if they are being punished and doing the wrong thing. My husband and I, after much discussion, decided to opt our 5 yo prep son out but after the appalling way he was treated, that greatly upset him, we have now reluctantly let him attend the class. Access Ministries deliberately and maliciously employ social ostracism of 5 year old (and other) children as a technique to bully their families into submitting to this forced indoctrination. These are the Christian values they model. Let’s not forget the Bible is also full of judgement and condemnation, and kindness and caring are most certainly NOT the sole domain of Christianity. Secular humanism offers some pretty good values too.
Debra, I appreciate that you have taken the time to write here in a considerate manner and express your side. Thanks.
I am still at a complete loss as to understand how, if you believe in compassion and fairness, you believe it is fair that only one religion is taught in (the majority) of state schools and that one religion is the default for all students.
Please explain what is wrong with students learning about all religions and what each one teaches, rather than teaching A religion in state schools as if it were a fact. You say “Jesus is a good example and is the leader of Christianity. Christianity is a great lesson to share if shared properly”. Do you not see that “shared properly” is teaching that Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, etc, etc…” NOT “Jesus is the son of God”. There is a huge difference between a belief and a fact.
Please explain why you are not satisfied with Christianity being taught to Christians in Christian schools and churches and homes and Sunday Schools.
Please explain why you think schools need CRE instead of values and ethics classes which are secular (as I have seen taught in other schools – including Christian ones – to great effect). In this way these lessons are relevant to all children.
Do not be so naive as to assume the children opted-out are “still doing school work”. My son (in Prep) either sits in an empty store room at the back of the class with a game (watching while his peers get Easter eggs or mazes) or attends another class and sorts counters. Christian pressure groups have made sure that it is illegal for the school to allow him to do other work. You have left me no choice but to tell him that he cannot attend because what they are learning is not true and he doesn’t need to hear it, when I would much prefer he learn ABOUT all religions, so he can become knowledgeable and make up his own mind what he believes.
Bek You have hit a nerve there. My girls were also ostracized when, at Easter time, the do good CRE teacher happily gave out Easter eggs to all the kids in the class room except my girl. She was forced to sit in the same room and was deliberately excluded from a simple giving act. You see how this works, if you don’t join in you will be punished any way they can think. The following day I sent her in with a bonanza of eggs for EVERYONE, now who has the moral high ground.
Anyone hear Tony Blair promoting his Inter-faith Foundation on radio national? I have suggested he use Australia as a pilot program to develop a multi-faith curriculum for schools and that it include atheism. Will I get a response or more silence as has been by experience when raising these issues!
My daughter is the only child in her class who opts out. The school has thankfully been able to schedule her piano lesson for that time, otherwise she would have been sent to another classroom, which is better than sitting in the corner, which was also offered as an option. We are a Same Sex Family. After listening to the Educator tell the kids that God created the world in seven days, like it was Truth and fact, I had very deep concerns that she would also be pushing the religious line that says my family is unnnatural. Plus, from what i saw, the education offered had nothing to do with ethics and moral behaviour and all about learning who the Christian biblical figures were, their superpowers and their role in creating the world. So of no value unless one wanted to become a Christian believer.
I’m not against real religious education (as opposed to Christian Education in Government Schools). When in secondary school Religious Ed was compulsory, but I was at a non denominational Independednt school and it was one of the most interesting subjects I ever studied. We looked at all the major religions and what they were all about. We even did an excursion visiting a synagogue and a mosque. Why can’t something like that be taught that actually teaches children about religion and religious beliefs, but doesn’t trry to indocrinate them into a specific one.
This debate is very interesting. I have been brought up in a missionary boarding school in India called Ramakrishna Mission. It is a foundation established after a great modern day sage known as Sri Ramakrishna. There are few Ramakrishna mission centers in Australia. The main center is in Sydney.
My school was in the outskirts of Calcutta in India. Bulk of the students were from lower middle class family. We had students from 2 failths mostly – hindu (90%), muslim (10%). As it was a religious school and most of the poor students like I were heavily subsidised by the foundation for education, one would expect the school to preach their religious beliefs to the students. Our school did preach religious sense (read virtues), not beliefs. We had mandatory prayer hours both in the morning and evening where choir leaders used to lead the choir, followed by reading of religious texts (each day had a preset theme – mostly we read from teachings from great religious scholars) and 10 minutes of mandatory meditation in pin drop silence. We also had a mandatory subject called ‘Indian Culture’ which was outside the board curriculum. One had to pass ‘Indian Culture’ to pass the annual exam to move to the next grade.
Average parent income of our school in those days used to be less than one-fifth of elite english-medium (and very famous) convents on big metro cities. In national exams, we used to outperform students from those schools quite easily.
Long story, but cut short, there are great examples of schools who are able to instill religious sense in to students that can guide them for the rest of their lives such as modesty, humility, respect for elders, love for family and community etc. There are great many examples of schools which make the students zealous and not necessarily thoughtful. If the fundamental question is – ‘is religion necessary for character building’ – unbiased answer would probably tend towards ‘yes’. That is simply because ‘religion’ is a simple and clear way of relating to great values and standards. It makes difficult concepts easy to understand. Is one religion more qualified than another in building the character? Perhaps this question can never be answered. But, is any religion suitable for being taught to an impressionable mind? Perhaps yes with right curriculum and right teachers. How much investment are we prepared to make this work? I don’t know.
There could be many ways parents could use this opportunity to build stronger character for their children. We could pull together a list of ideas and that could be put in to a draft paper for discussion at the right forums. More interestingly, if a particular school volunteers, we could create a curriculum and as parents, volunteer as instructors for areas where we feel most comfortable to teach. That’s all for now. Thanks.
@Debra
Debra I refer to this line from you: ” CRE promotes what Christianity is about… being kind and caring and tolerant of all people. Tolerance is so important, don’t you think!”
( I notice you don’t end the line with the appropriate question mark, …ummm very telling)
Well no Debra, I don’t think so at all!
I refuse to be tolerant of religious fanatics (all of them) that want to threaten and kill those who do not follow their faith. I have nothing but contempt for people who want to get at the young minds of tomorrow and preach their Bronze Age clap-trap to them and set them up for a lifelong backward and confused & often guilt ridden future. I have no tolerance for all this garbage at all in any form to any level whatsoever. I do understand that people such as yourself mean well. But what you fail to see is that you and others like you of other religions perpetuate hate in our world with your ‘good’ intentions. Please keep your religion to yourself in private. Do you really want the local Imam access to your kids or others in your neighborhood, spreading his hatred for the west, introducing his fundamentalism in the under the pretext of “Fairness In REligion in Schools” ie your school community ‘ out of school hours” (which will at some point be argued to mean during lunchtimes – just you wait and see, there will come some or other ludicrous argument that it is unfair to allow them in only after 3pm when the children are tired and cannot concentrate or some other excuse!)? Have you watched any Youtube Hitchslaps? Have you read any Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens? ( and many others) I can tell by the things you say in your various comments, you have no idea just how dangerous most religions are and how they would dearly love to curtail all of our hard won freedoms. All religions have at their poisonous heart of the ideology that theirs is the one true god (I refuse to give that name a capital letter) That they know better than everyone else how to live, and to eventually impose their deranged belief system onto everyone else. Not at all different to George Orwell’s 1984, and the current North Korea too by the way. Yes, that leader and his son’s are considered to be gods! There is no freedom of existance at all, not of movement, not of career, not of home or love or speach or even of thought in the hellish nation. And that is what we all risk when we ‘tolerate’ religions. (there is tons of evidence for all I have said)
The United Nations makes a huge mistake when they grant adults the world over the “Right of the Child” (hardly!) to indoctrinate them into the parent’s religion. Kids are way to young to understand religion. There is NO SUCH THING AS A RELIGIOUS CHILD! Only children of religious adults. The religious indoctrination of children should be a crime against humanity. If that were a law the worlds states adhered to, after just 1 generation there would be virtually no religion and we could all get back to peace on earth again. Panderers to religion like you are what perpetuates virtually all global conflict. (congratulations!)
Oh Evonne, stop posting this kind of stuff, we all know that there isn’t a faction of atheists who are out to remove children from religious families via some mythical one world government. That is all stuff that Tim LaHay made up to sell books.
I have read with interest the stories parents have shared but I am puzzled by the ‘opt out’ that everyone is talking about.
In Qld the Queensland Education (General Provisions) Act & Regulation 2006, currently in force, states: Chapter 5 Religious instruction (Regulation) -The principal of a State school must not allow a student to attend religious instruction given by a minister of religion or an accredited representative other than the denomination or society of which the student is a member, unless the student’s parent has given written consent. Furthermore: according to a DET representative, once a note has been written asking for the children to be excluded from this ‘instruction’, this one note should not have to written again for the rest of the school life of the child
However the school my child goes to requires a ‘note to opt out’ (apparently it’s ‘easier’) – which I really really object to (and won’t be providing).
My child attends a state school and when the RE/RI encompasses a broad overview of beliefs/faiths all over the world they will then attend RE/RI. As it is, a previous school, despite not ticking any box with regards to faith my child was in an RE class. I was not aware of it until she asked if we knew we were all made of dust. We did not remove her from the class (as she would have been the only one out of the class) but I had a big chat with the Deputy principal at the time who said a) I must have ticked the box (I didn’t), and b) my daughter could not join the little Hindu boy for his special RE. He was of the opinion that younger children are confused by the concept of ‘many faiths’ and that they cover that later in high school (umm Bollocks! and tolerance is best taught young IMO). My daughters haven’t taken RE since. However they have been forced to sit in classrooms while RE has been carried on despite this being specifically prohibited in the above Act. When my daughter (8yr old) told her teacher it was against the law, he basically told her that she didn’t know what she was talking about. It took a trip by myself, to the office and a very quick chat with the office manager to have it sorted which is how I came to be told that ‘yes they know parents are supposed to opt in, but it’s easier if they opt out’!
I’ve given my child a copy of a letter I prepared last year, with quotes taken from the Act. I’m not writing her a note to excuse her and if she is forced (although she has a better teacher this year) to sit in a RE class, partaking in the lesson or because they have no one to supervise them, she will pull this letter out and hand it to the teacher or principal.
If my children went to a faith based school I would of course have no issue with RE being taught but! I do not expect to have to constantly deal with this year after year at a State school. And I think if more parents knew about the ‘opting in’ option for RE, I think you would find a lot less kids attending RE. The only reason a lot of the kids are in RE (at our school anyway) is due to apathy (not faith) of the parents.
My 9 year old son in year 6, NSW school, attends an Enrichment program at the local (public) high school 1 day a week. Last week they studied Forensics – finger-printing, blood types, bone fragments, etc. When the teacher mentioned digging up bones, one of the students asked “Is this like studying evolution?”, and the teacher replied “I don’t believe in evolution, I believe in God”.
After my son came home with this story (he knew it would wind me up!), I phoned the principal who seemed not to understand what the problem was. “Well, we’ll at least make sure the students get both sides of the story”. WHAT? What “both sides”? Amazing! If this is the intelligence level of the PRINCIPALS in our high schools, no wonder the surveys show our educational standards going backwards.
I personally think that CRE is a perfect opportunity to encourage children to learn about God and how to be a good person. It is possible for you people who wish not for their children to learn these valuable traits to simply tick the ‘no’ box on the form. I do agree however, when it comes to the children having to sit at their desks watching or even being in broom cupboards because their parents said no, that it is a problem. Teachers (or the school) should provide a room (far enough away from the lesson so they can not listen in) with activities for them to do while the class is in order.
This is just my opinion and I do not wish to offend anyone.
@Kat
I’m in Qld too and the school my kids go to operates in exactly the same manner you described. My oldest daughter is now in gr6 and every year we are sent home the note that says if you don’t send this back then your children will be put into RE classes. For the last two years I have returned those notes with printed copies of the official policies of the Education Department and highlighted how they are failing to follow the procedures and complained bat how offensive it is to continually have to fight to make this choice for my children when the school are actually the ones doing the wrong thing. I am still awaiting even a simple acknowledgement of my letters, much less them actually being addressed constructively.
Despite differences in the basic provision of RE lessons in Qld and Vic, I relate to many of the comments that Victorian parents have left here. Children being removed from class as if they are doing something wrong. Children not being removed from the class and then coming home and telling me how they learned their 2 times tables and by the way did I know tht God made EVERYTHING? If the classes were truly teaching that *some people believe* these things and also talking about things that other groups believe then I would be thrilled for my children to participate in RE. But for as long as it is presented as fact alongside the basic mathematical and language concepts that they also learn, I will continue to have my children excluded and I will continue to remind the school what they are doing that is wrong. (Maybe by the time my youngest, currently in Prep, gets to gr6, they will actually deign to respond to me.)
When I was in primary school, I believe it was around grade 4, I was sent to the principal’s office by the RE teacher. My crime was asking questions and challenging what it was that he wanted the class to believe. I’m not an outgoing person and I don’t like to call attention to myself. Even in primary school I was much more likely to have to be directly asked a question by the teacher rather than volunteering the answer myself, even if I knew it. Now as an adult looking back, I absolutely cannot fathom that a child would be sent to the principal (a course of action reserved for only the most troublesome of students) for voluntarily displaying curiosity and independent and analytical thinking. Isn’t this one of the most important skills that a child can develop? What kind of damage was done to both my own learning and the rest of my class who saw that asking questions wasn’t good, it was the kind of thing that gets you sent to the principal and results in you coming back in tears because the principal also basically told you that you had done the wrong thing by asking questions. What does it say about the instructor providing the RE class that he was so unable to deal with a child’s simple questions about his faith that he felt it necessary to humiliate the child by removing her from the classroom and sending her to the principal?
Yes, my bad experience does have some influence on why my husband and I choose for our children not to participate in RE, but it’s not the only reason. Both of us strongly feel that any education provided should be unbiased and covering a wide range of faiths, providing children information so that as they grow they will know which, if any, religions seem to make the most sense to how they feel. I wonder sometimes, though, if we can only be happy feeling this way precisely because we don’t subscribe to any particular religion – we don’t have a vested interest in ensuring our children choose the ‘right’ religion.
Hi Kat & Jade
I’m in Qld too, and our school *used* to do the same thing. For five years I dutifully wrote opt-out notes for my son, and every time I would have to go in and personally advise the teacher that he had chosen not to do RI because the school couldn’t be bothered advising teachers. I got heartily sick of it and, after the school failed to honour a promise to another parent to start following the regulations, I wrote a letter to the principal detailing the difficulty we had experienced in having our wishes respected, how it was disrespectful to us and our children (and other families who were being ‘volunteered for RI) and referencing the DET regulations to indicate how they were breaching those regulations. I sent a copy of the same letter to Student Services at DET (07 3234 1604). A week later, the school sent out the two forms that they should have in the first place; one that advised parents who had indicated a denomination of Christianity as their religion on their enrolment forms that their children would be included in RI unless they returned the form to opt out, and; another advising parents who had indicated no religion, a religion other than Christianity, or who had left the religion question blank, that their children would be placed in an alternative activity in a separate physical space unless they returned the form to opt them in. As a result, the number of kids *not* doing RI rose to 8-9 in my sons’ classes where they had either been the only child not doing it, or one of just 2-3 children not participating; I know there were kids in other classes who should never have been doing it in the first place either. I believe a couple of kids opted back in, as is their choice. The school was also made to change the misleading term Religious Education (some parents thought they would be learning about a number of different religions) to Religious Instruction. Also, RI is *not* part of the curriculum, and schools often list it under the ‘Curriculum’ link on websites etc, and often don’t articulate that participation is completely voluntary (unfortunately, my school still lists it under the ‘Curriculum’ link on the website – *sigh*).
It is unacceptable that schools continue to ignore parents’ and children’s choices for the sake of administrative expedience. I even saw an internal newsletter (dated December 2010) from DET to schools that included a strong reminder to schools to make sure they follow the DET regulations on RI – obviously this was ignored, as it appears to be by many schools. If you want action, I suggest you contact Student Services on the number above. It’s probably best to get the email of the relevant person and put it in writing to them (I think they are obliged to reply to a written complaint). You are within your rights to insist that, at the very least, the regulations be followed and people’s choices be respected. Let me know via reply to this forum if you would like a copy of the letter I sent (suitably edited to protect privacy!
if you think it would be of use. I’d love to hear that another school had been made to toe the line!